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Science Tuesday: Breath-taking insanity

Written on May 27, 2008

The subtitle of this post my very well turn out to be “How I Alienated My Religious Readers” but I got a little something stuck in my craw while reading up for this week’s Science Tuesday. My last job, at Oxford, was working in a lab that focused on evolutionary developmental biology. This field of study, and in fact all life sciences, take as a given a modification of Darwin’s theory of evolution. Most educated people around the world operate under the assumption that life as we know it today is the result of changes in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next over millions and millions of years. Evolutionary biology, my field, documents the fact that evolution occurs, and also develops and tests theories that explain why it occurs. I’m here to report to you that evolution is as solid a biological tenet as you’ll find.

International readers may wonder where I’m going here.”Yeah, yeah”, they’ll say, “What’s the issue? Let’s see some more pictures of that kid.” The issue is, as one federal judge put it, “the utter waste of monetary and personal resources” that is the debate over teaching evolution in school. One of the lovely side-effects of six years of whack-job rule was that the far right got cocky and started pushing either the outright banning of the teaching of evolution in public schools or at the very least giving equal time to a bollocks “theory” known as Intelligent Design (ID). ID is nothing more than creationism in a lab coat. It espouses the theory that the world was created by an “intelligent designer”some time in the last 10,000 years and that life as we know it appeared at roughly the same time. It differs very little from the creation fable in Genesis.

Fortunately, the federal courts have ruled that ID, as with other religious alternatives to evolution, can not be presented in the public schools as doing so violates the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution. This should protect at least the 90% of American students that attend public schools. According to a recent study in PLoS Biology, this is frighteningly not the case. A group of political scientists at Penn State University led by Michael B. Berkman performed a survey of public high school teachers regarding the amount of time they devote to teaching evolution.

Berkman’s group found that 98% of high school Biology teachers spent at least an hour on general evolutionary processes – OK so far, though I’m curious about that two percent. When it came to teaching human evolution – the shocking idea that we diverged from a common ancestor with apes a couple of million years ago – 17% of teachers chose to eschew the topic entirely. What’s even more disturbing us that 25% of public school teachers dedicated at least an hour to teaching creationism or ID – in direct violation of the law and common sense. For me, the most shocking finding reported in this paper is that 48% of the American public believes that “God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years.” Who are you, 48% of Americans? Could you please out yourself so we can have a serious discussion about science and the origin of life? I can understand the importance of religion and I respect that, I really do. But you don’t believe everything in the Bible is literally true, do you? Can’t we just read the creation story as allegory and move on?

I know that this post is probably going to anger some of my readers. I don’t apologize for that. It angers me that if I had a child in the secular, public school system in the U.S. – and I’m more and more grateful that this is not likely to be the case – that he may be exposed to a theory (no, “theory” gives ID too much credence) an insane belief that flies in the face of hundreds of years of scientific data. Even worse, he may be taught that what is basically the unifying principle of biology is no more valid than this myth of divine creation. I have lots of superstitions and crazy beliefs and I suspect that you wouldn’t want me to teach them to your children as an alternative to established truths nor I would presume to do so. I have the utmost respect for your faith – I have a fair bit of my own – but please, keep it out of the public schools.

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  1. Comment by Angel:

    The subject of this post is exactly why any religious-thinking person on this earth is made fun of, looked down upon, and avoided at all costs today. You’ve hit it dead on target. Sort of.

    In any belief or society you have these total whack jobs that are so extreme, they give the rest of us a bad name. If you have any religious conviction whatsoever then you must surely be an ignorant non-scientific person who is close minded and constantly trying to push your fantasy world upon everyone else.

    And if you’re of the more scientific type, then you’re labeled as being sterile and cold without the ability to feel faith or hope or anything you can’t prove in a petri dish.

    If it can be proven as fact and will somehow make my kid a better, more educated person in life, teach it to him. If it won’t, shut the fuck up about it. You probably don’t know what you’re talking about, anyway. I’ll teach him the rest at home.
    I’m a very religious person who weighs everything I believe by both my faith and by science, and the absolute last thing I want is for the public education short bus to be teaching my child anything religious in school. I totally understand your fears about that. She just finished her first year of school, and believe me when I tell you that is one of the areas I will monitor on a day to day basis as she progresses. Teach the parts of evolution we’ve proven and leave off the guesses because that’s where it gets tricky. Don’t teach the guesses because if you do, then the fanatics of every side are going to demand you teach their guesses, too.

    We make it so much harder than it really is, you know. If we’d just shut up and listen to one another. I know we never will, but it’s nice to think about it sometimes when I’m drunk. There is no reason to teach religion in schools. I’ll debate my religious convictions with anyone willing to listen to me with the respect I’ll certainly give them in return. But when it comes right down to it, if I want to believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny, it’s really no one’s business as long as I don’t try to push that belief upon you. And if you want to believe you sprouted from a cabbage patch, you have every right to believe just that. The thing is, if all the scientific and religious extremist lemmings would just go jump off a bridge somewhere, the rest of us could probably meet in the middle and figure out the true parts on both sides!

    Your post, while completely offensive toward religion, ID of any kind, doesn’t offend me in the least. This is your blog, and you have every right to post what you think and feel. Taking away your right to believe what you believe would be the same thing as taking away my right. Besides, I’m a grown up. I can handle more than one viewpoint and respect each one.

    No one has to agree with me all the time… unless I’m married to him.

    May 27, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
  2. Comment by CDV:

    Angel, I didn’t really mean to be offensive toward religion – I’ve got no problem with religion. I did mean to be offensive to ID, because it’s crap. The two are separable. I know too that there are some whack jobs on my side that make things difficult – Dawkins is a good example.

    What I’m not really willing to do, and what is really my problem with the whole thing, is to debate the relative merits of evolution versus ID. There is no debate. There are some questions about the whens and wherefores of evolution, but the theory is solid. Evolution happened and continues to do so – I’ve “seen” it first hand. We do our kids a disservice by making it seem as if ID is a viable alternative.

    May 27, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
  3. Comment by Not Afraid To Use It:

    Great post, and brilliant Venn. Like Angel said, I will be monitoring the hell out of what my kids learn–particularly when it comes to the sciences. I spent far too much time in the American South, god knows if we ever end up back in that part of the States my children will NOT be attending public school.

    Not Afraid To Use It’s last blog post..Flip-Flops and Mass Transit

    May 27, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
  4. Comment by Angel:

    See Chris, that’s the problem. While I do see how you separated things, and thank you for that, most people don’t. They see religion and ID as the same thing.
    Like I said, teach my kid what we can prove. She’s going to develop her own faiths over time, and I intend to give her every opportunity to do just that. I’ll tell her how I believe, but I will never force that upon her.

    Not Afraid… you’d be really surprised how far the Southern public school systems have come on this subject. In my area, anyway, very rarely do we have a teacher trying to sweep evolution under the rug or teach ID in a classroom. They’re learning to go by the book around here, and that’s a good thing because I don’t want to have to hurt someone over what my kid comes home and tells me at the end of the day. But then, we’re sort of the “fake” south, anyway. (We were neutral in the war… which translates to getting our asses kicked by both sides!)

    May 27, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
  5. Comment by CDV:

    Yeah, as someone who was raised and educated in the South, I’d like to point out that recent cases have been in places like Pennsylvania, Kansas, and Minnesota.

    May 27, 2008 @ 2:19 pm
  6. Comment by courtney:

    Preach it, brotha.

    This is a great post, and I appreciate your candor. While I also don’t have a problem with religion in general, I don’t understand why people can’t let schools teach the scientific stuff and let the churches teach the religious stuff.

    Scratch that — I do understand why. The people pushing for ID to be taught in schools aren’t worried about their own kids, as they have been sufficiently brainwashed by the time they enter school. They’re worried about YOUR kids. They want YOUR kids to think like them. I think it boils down to a case of people not minding their own business.

    I love that Venn diagram. Religion, politics and stupidity — they’re all pretty much the same, aren’t they?

    courtney’s last blog post..Harrison Ford: Putting the Sex in Sexagenarian

    May 27, 2008 @ 3:12 pm
  7. Comment by Jessica K:

    Hmm… how to put this… You might be surprised that I’m not offended by your post either. I know, you think I would be, right? I have a differing opinion, but that’s what makes the world go ’round, right? The thing that I don’t understand as a Creationist (yes, I said Creationist with a capital “C”) is why people on the evolution side are the only ones who deserve to be heard? Is there one side to history? One side to art? Why is there only one side to science? I understand that you don’t want your child brainwashed by someone who believes in creation, but in the same way, I don’t want my children taught something contrary to our core belief. If my child came home from school and told me that his teacher said there is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, no God or Creator, I would tell him his teacher is wrong. And therein lies the problem. You do not want religion taught to Zach and I do not want atheism taught to Grayson and Grant. It would seem that in this area of study, there is no way to take religion out of it.
    So, I ask you, is it right or fair that my child be taught something I view as against our religion, just because I cannot homeschool nor afford a private Christian education for him? The name God, Yawheh, Allah need not be mentioned, but I do expect my child to learn Intelligent Design as an alternative to evolution.
    You are entitled to your beliefs, but shouldn’t Creationists be as well?

    Jessica K’s last blog post..Kickin’ it Ewok Style

    May 27, 2008 @ 3:50 pm
  8. Comment by Megan:

    Is it possible for you to belive in BOTH??

    I believe in evolution, and I belive in GOD. To me, we were created, by a big bang that started it all while the designer stood back and watched it unfold.

    I don’t understand why that is so hard…

    Just because I believe in creation, doesn’t mean I think we popped out of thin air “much like we are now”. I can see the ape in us very clearly. Especially these days…

    May 27, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
  9. Comment by Matthew:

    ID can be taught in school, but maybe as an example of what science is not. Honestly, it’s not that ID can’t be talked about in school. The question is the setting. Evolution is a scientific fact backed by tons and years of experimental data. ID cannot be experimented on. There is no test for a higher being, or an intelligent designer. If you can’t test for it, than it is not science. ID is religion and philosophy. So, let philosophy be taught in a philosophy class, and let science be taught in a science class.

    In addition, there is a common misconception that science and evolution states that there is no God. That is not true. Science tries to explain things by natural means. When it comes to religion, Science is, at best, agnostic (no test = no proof or disproof). Science doesn’t know if God exist (but if he does, science suggests he used evolution). A lot of scientists are atheist, but the science principle is agnostic, and these two often gets intermingled and confuses the general public.

    On a side note, a professor told me once, and I tend to agree, that nothing in life can be proven, but only disproved. Just thought I would throw that in there.

    Matthew’s last blog post..We named the *dog* Indiana

    May 27, 2008 @ 5:28 pm
  10. Comment by CDV:

    Matthew says it better than I did. ID is religion and has no place in a science class. No more than Biochemistry would have a place in Sunday school.

    Megan, I like what you say as well and you’re skirting around my actual beliefs. But as a scientist, I couldn’t possibly teach that to someone else – there is no empirical evidence to support a divine event.

    May 27, 2008 @ 11:28 pm
  11. Comment by CDV:

    Oh, but Megan, the problem is that 48% (!!!!) of Americans do think that we popped out of thin air “much like we are now”.

    That frightens the shit out of me.

    May 27, 2008 @ 11:30 pm
  12. Comment by Angel:

    Yep. Matthew nailed what I meant, too.

    May 28, 2008 @ 1:17 am
  13. Comment by DavidK:

    As someone raised Southern Baptist – and someone who is Christian though not particularly attached to any denomination – I can honestly say that this fear of science seems to me a recent development. In fact, I only became aware a few years ago that there are actually morons who believe the Earth is 6000 years old. And sorry, if you believe that, I have no other description for you. The latest trend is for ID advocates (calling Ben Stein!) to paint themselves as victims of “intellectual tyranny.” Education is not simply a matter of free speech, particularly in the areas of science, which should hold reason and empirical data in extremely high regard. If I was a Scientologist, I might want my child to be taught that we are all descended from aliens (I’ll let Tom Cruise jump in here with the details). Or why stop there? Perhaps every major and minor religion should get a shot at our 8th graders.

    Or perhaps we should stick with the scientific community’s best theory on the origin of man, however imperfect it may be, like all things within the limited grasp of humanity. And perhaps we can let parents and children grapple with the specifics of their personal religious beliefs at home and in church.

    I struggle a great deal with my own faith and my own alienation from the Church, but the “debate” over ID in schools reminds me why many Christians are best left at arms length from me and my child. -DK

    DavidK’s last blog post..Your life needs a theme song…

    May 28, 2008 @ 3:00 am
  14. Comment by CDV:

    David’s comment got me to thinking about what you said, Jess. I would not want your kids (or mine) to be taught atheism. For one thing, that’s not my personal belief but more importantly it’s not relevant to their public school education. A scientific explanation for how life got to the point where it is now is extremely relevant to their education.

    If, and I’m not saying you Jess, the ID people had their way then the American education system would be rocketed back to the level of other theocracies – Saudi Arabia and Iran for example.

    I always learned that you should never discuss politics or religion at the dinner table. Maybe I need to extend the same thing to the blog, because this is really annoying to me. Evolution is a valid scientific theory that forms the foundation of biology. Random mutation provides a reproductive benefit which allows the mutants to outbreed and outcompete the non-mutants. I’ve seen it, I’ve looked at DNA sequences from related species and seen the differences responsible for morphological change. In some cases it’s as little as one nucleotide (letter) change. Evolution is NOT under question by most people, nor should it be. ID (or Creationism) is an article of faith. I respect you if you believe it strongly. But there is absolutely NO situation in which the two stand side by side. They are apples and oranges folks.

    May 28, 2008 @ 3:47 am
  15. Comment by Christie:

    Great conversation.

    I skimmed the other responses so I hope I’m not duplicating what someone else has already said but I don’t think I saw anyone bring up the separation of church and state. That plays a huge role in why creationism (repackaged as ID) is not allowed in the public classroom. Also, people of faith who typically argue for creationism seem to lessen the validity of science by merely mocking the word “theory” – as in, “evolution’s just a theory”. Yeah, technically that is true. But in science a theory is different than merely a guess.

    Keep creationism/ID out of public schools.

    Christie’s last blog post..Ninth Wordless Wednesday requires a car

    May 28, 2008 @ 9:44 am
  16. Comment by Jessica K:

    Hey Chris, I really like what DavidK said. I am a Christian, and I do believe that God created the world. I don’t however think He did it in a week. I also don’t think that the earth is only 6,000 years old. I have no idea how it all happened, and I respect that you know a heck of a lot more about it than I do, but I think it is very possible for God to have created things slowly over millions of years. The order of things in the creation story would even suggest that: water creatures, then air creatures, then land creatures, then mammals, and lastly men. I dunno.
    Anyway, in my other comment I wasn’t suggesting that you were an atheist. I was only saying that I don’t want someone telling my kids that there is no way God had anything to with it. Sorry if I offended you. :)

    Jessica K’s last blog post..Kickin’ it Ewok Style

    May 28, 2008 @ 3:37 pm
  17. Comment by David K:

    And Jessica, I wasn’t necessarily lumping you into that category of Creationist (what did I call it, “morons”?). When I was growing up back in the olden days (1970’s and ’80’s), it was more or less the de facto position of Christians I knew that the Bible is being metaphorical about the 7 days, and that it was perfectly natural and acceptable to square that with the findings of science. That’s why I referred to it as a recent phenomenon, though I’m sure there were fringe elements of 6K Christians back then as well.

    I am so disturbed by the trend in some corners of Christianity to regard science with suspicion. I still think hard-line Creationism (i.e. 6K Christians) is a minority, but it is an increasingly vocal one. And I do think that ID offers a good RELIGIOUS answer to the question of God’s role in the creation of the world, but it is just that – a religious answer, not a scientific one. As such, I can’t see a reasonable way to teach ID to our public school children.

    Furthermore, I dislike ID because it would seem to discourage futher research on the topic of evolution, which continues to be explored and continues to be refined. Humanity cannot know all of the answers, but I’ve always felt our searching for them is one of our most divine traits.

    David K’s last blog post..Your life needs a theme song…

    May 28, 2008 @ 4:11 pm
  18. Comment by Ryan:

    Sheee-IT, this is good one, Chris.

    As an atheist, I can’t imagine raising the children I might have as such; I’m a firm believer (funny for an atheist to say, I know) in “to each their own”, and would have to extend that to child-rearing as well.

    “I believe in god, daddy!”

    “Swell, child. Enjoy yourself.”

    I had a great conversation with a creationist biology-major, and despite how absurdly contradictory that label is, we spent many an hour talking about the meeting point of religion and science; what it all basically came down to is that science gets thrown out the window once it interferes too strongly with one’s religion, and people will believe what they want to believe regardless of it’s validity…hence the term “faith”, right?

    Fair enough…except that those same human-frailties apply to TEACHERS as well, and the resultant inability to stand back and allow a gestating brain to come to its own understanding of religion and/or belief is one of the worst fucking things one person can do to another on this planet.

    Oops! Got a little riled up there, Chris…maybe stopped making sense, too.

    Ah, well – c’est la vie!

    May 28, 2008 @ 4:20 pm
  19. Comment by Jessica K:

    Wow, Chris, this is right up there with your animal testing post! tee hee
    David, I didn’t think you were calling me a moron. :)
    I grew up in a house where there could be NO blending of faith and science and went to schools that taught the same thing. So, forgive me if I’m behind the learning curve here. I was taught STRICTLY ID in school, even in public high school, so trying to understand that there can be God and evolution in the same process is relatively new to me, but makes a lot of sense. Give a brainwashed girly a chance to learn, ‘k?

    Jessica K’s last blog post..Kickin’ it Ewok Style

    May 28, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
  20. Comment by Matthew:

    I like what I’m hearing from David K. I grew up in a very religious household and was taught that creationism was the only answer to how we got to were we are. It wasn’t until I was in college that the facts of evolution came to my attention and that the idea, which was force feed me when I was young, was flawed. Not that GOD was flawed or wrong, just that the interpretation of the Bible I was taught was wrong. Fact is fact, and if it doesn’t fit in with your religious dogma, than you have to challenge what you believe because facts hardly ever change.

    Francis Collins, the man in charge of the human genome project, said it best. Science tackles the questions of how we got here, but it is Religion that tackles the question of why are we here.

    As for the study in this post, the question that we must ask is, why is it that 48% of the American public believe that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years when there is ample evidence to the contrary? One could argue it is the fault of the education system. I think it is mainly the fault of scientist not being able to communicate well to the general public. Preachers, religious leaders, and religious radicals are unconsciously chosen for the their ability to communicate well with the general populace. Scientist are chosen for their ability to do good science, and conveying that research to the general public doesn’t enter the equation. Thus the general public is largely unaware of the science and the research done. This begs the question, what can scientists do to better communicate to the general public?

    Matthew’s last blog post..All is well

    May 28, 2008 @ 5:26 pm
  21. Comment by David K:

    Thought maybe this essay might interest a few folks:

    As for myself, I’ve never particularly seen the relevance of the Creation vs. Evolution debate to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Not that there isn’t plenty to chew on in the Old Testament. I mean, c’mon – two of EVERY KIND of animal on one boat?! That seemed fishy to me when I was seven years old.

    David K’s last blog post..Your life needs a theme song…

    May 28, 2008 @ 5:37 pm
  22. Comment by Jamie:

    As someone who lives in a theocracy (Utah), one thing that frustrates me about the ID/Creationist people, is that while they say the don’t believe in evolution, and do not want it taught in schools (hence the 48 percent-and I have seen higher figures), they actually DO believe in evolution, or at least are willing to take advantage of the results of evolutionary science. Namely, when they go to the doctor, they don’t just want old penicillin, but whatever new drugs have been developed to combat bacteria that have evolved resistance to the old drugs. This I think reflects American culture, where people think their beliefs should be respected no matter how nutty and logically inconsistent they are. I would respect their beliefs more if they lived off the grid in a cabin, with no modern medicine, truly following the Bible they claim is 100 percent accurate: no eating pork, no shaving the beard, owning slaves, the death penalty for women who are not virgins when married, etc. etc. To close my rant, may I ask if those who don’t believe in evolution also think that the Sun revolves around the Earth? After all, the Bible says it does…

    May 28, 2008 @ 8:48 pm
  23. Comment by CDV:

    Wow guys, good work on a remarkably civil debate – no one has told anyone to fuck off.

    I like what Ryan had to say. If Zach came home one day and said “Dad, I’m a homosexual atheist” that would be OK. Equally if he came home and said “Dad, I’ve become a Mormon” that would be OK. As long as he works it out himself.

    And Matt, you’re absolutely right about scientific communication. It’s the biggest problem that scientists face – just look at the mainstream press every time someone publishes a GFP labeled transgene in an animal system”Scientists Create Mouse – Jelllyfish Hybrid”, with the madness implied.

    Jess, I’m never, ever offended. It’s how I stay sane in the world.

    Jamie, what percentage of Utahans (Utans? Utes?) voted Republican in 2004? Yeah, I’m pretty sure that they do believe the sun revolves around the earth. They certainly believed in a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq with the same amount of evidence.

    May 28, 2008 @ 11:44 pm
  24. Comment by Maggie, dammit:

    Hey, back when we got into it over research you promised me religion – and you delivered!

    To answer your question about the 48%? Yeah, they’re the ones who reelected Bush. Who are voting to strip gays of rights. If they’re the majority or close to it, I’m in a sad, lonely place.

    Great post, mate.

    Maggie, dammit’s last blog post..Hear her roar

    May 29, 2008 @ 12:49 am
  25. Comment by Maggie, dammit:

    No guarantees this is my last comment, because I’m still reading through what everyone else said….

    Christy’s comment reminded me of a bumper sticker I saw once:

    “Sure, evolution is just a theory. Like gravity.”

    Maggie, dammit’s last blog post..Hear her roar

    May 29, 2008 @ 12:54 am
  26. Comment by Maggie, dammit:

    Yup, I’m back.

    Just wanted to say, this?

    “I think it is mainly the fault of scientist not being able to communicate well to the general public. Preachers, religious leaders, and religious radicals are unconsciously chosen for the their ability to communicate well with the general populace. Scientist are chosen for their ability to do good science, and conveying that research to the general public doesn’t enter the equation. Thus the general public is largely unaware of the science and the research done. This begs the question, what can scientists do to better communicate to the general public?”

    I wrote about this in that animal research article. I also included your guinea pig reference! (Yay me.)

    OK. I’m really leaving this time. 😉

    Maggie, dammit’s last blog post..Hear her roar

    May 29, 2008 @ 12:58 am
  27. Comment by Gypsy:

    Fuck off!

    Sorry. No one had done it, so I had to. 😉

    What I want to know is, when are they going to start teaching the doctrine of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? The truth shall be revealed.

    Gypsy’s last blog post..I’m so sick of myself.

    May 29, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
  28. Comment by Christie:

    I remember reading about debates between scientists and religious experts once and here was the gist of that conversation, in relation to the discussion on the scientific community’s ability to communicate effectively.

    Whenever there is a debate between a scientist and a person of faith or a group of scientists and persons of faith, polling shows that people in the audience always walk away from the event with the feeling that those on the religious side won. Here’s what they finally came up with as a reason to explain this phenomenon – people(s) of faith have one book to consult for answers. One. And the information in that book can be bent, twisted, interpreted, etc. to get said person to the answer for which that person is searching. Many answers can boil down to taking something on “faith” or the like.

    Science, on the other hand, is comprised of many branches (biology, geology, chemistry, anatomy, etc.) of exploration. Most are still working through ideas and experiments to come up with the hard data required to actually reach sound conclusions. And you will often hear scientists say such things as “we don’t know yet.” That type of statement is rarely heard from those speaking on religion’s behalf.

    It’s all interesting to me. I want to understand people who, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, believe the earth is 6000 years old and that we roamed the plains with dinosaurs.

    On a side note, if I do decide to raise my child to believe in a particular religion, it’ll definitely be the gospel of the FSM.

    Christie’s last blog post..Rest in peace, Mr. Spud

    May 30, 2008 @ 3:17 pm
  29. Comment by sarala:

    Well, you’re preaching to the converted here. But we know that certain Americans have been refusing to evolve since Creation.
    If anyone tried to teach creationism in my kids’ science class, I might be guilty of murder!

    sarala’s last blog post..Book Reviews in Short

    May 31, 2008 @ 10:27 pm
  30. Comment by arizaphale:

    Now that was FUN! Everyone’s already said all the good stuff so all I can add is
    Christie: we didn’t roam the plains with the dinosaurs because there were no dinosaurs because they are not mentioned in the Bible. Then again, neither are computers, not even in Revelations (that I’m aware of) so maybe this is all a dream………
    Jess: You are the sweetest person on Earth and I think your last sentence is a very important one!!

    arizaphale’s last blog post..*Sigh*

    June 2, 2008 @ 5:23 pm
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